Santoni Spotlight - an interview with Pete Fowler is available on YouTube.
In this episode of "Santoni Spotlight" Tim Santoni interviews Pete Fowler, Chief Quality Officer of Pete Fowler Construction, a nationwide construction consultancy. In addition to a B.S. in Construction Management, Pete is a general contractor, professional cost estimator and has published articles in national magazines. Focusing on construction projects and buildings suffering distress, Pete has analyzed damage, performed testing, specified and overseen repairs, performed repairs as a contractor and testified on a wide variety of construction issues. Pete has experience with successful expert witness testimony, including Federal Court.
Tim: Hi, this is Tim Santoni, and welcome to the Santoni Spotlight. Today, I'm joined by Pete Fowler. Pete, thanks for joining me, man.
Pete Fowler, Chief Quality Officer: My pleasure.
Tim: Before we get started, maybe you could give the viewers a little bit of sense of you - your history, your background, your career, kind of what you're doing now, kind of set the stage for our conversation.
Pete: I started digging ditches when I was 16 years old, and I've been in construction almost exclusively since that time. After a little stint with long hair and playing in a rock band, I went to college and got a degree in construction management with a minor in computer information systems.
I started my firm in 2000. I was young and not very creative, so it's called Pete Fowler Construction. I’ve lamented for years because when people call on the phone, they want to talk to Pete.
Tim: They know they've reached the man.
Pete: We do three things: building inspection and testing of many kinds, construction management- mostly related to construction cost estimating and building rehabilitation- and claims and litigation, specifically construction claims and litigation.
Anything that ever made anyone feel sad about a building- whether it cost too much, took too long, someone fell down the stairs, or it leaked. And then a thousand things I never would have thought of. People call me, saying, "Can you help me untangle this problem?" And then we testify at the end of things if people cant sort it our. That's the bottom line of our work.
Tim: Okay, gotcha. So, a typical client for you would look like what?
Pete: A lawyer working for an insurance company. That is probably, you know, that is at least half of it. It is a lawyer getting paid by an insurance company.
We work for anybody who calls us, as long as, you know, some folks who do what we do- they're more liberal with their opinions depending on who's paying them.
We, you know, I've told everybody from the beginning I'm a terrible liar, so if you have a great case, then I'm a great expert for you. If you don't have a great case, I'm a terrible expert for you.
So, when the phone rings, we answer it. And so, if somebody's got a problem, we can help them sort it out. We have a whole set of systems and processes that are different from many of our competitors.
Tim: Gotcha. So, I usually ask people, what are the top three things that occur that cause someone to reach out? And I imagine, in your business, there's probably hundreds of reasons, but maybe give us a sense of a typical scenario where you guys can add the most value.
Obviously, your background is rooted in operations, and you have a lot of expertise in training and testifying. Like you said, you're not going to lie and make up things. Is what you're referring to that you really understand what's going on, and you're not going to make up your decisions to try and manipulate juries or win settlements? But maybe give our viewers a sense of the top two or three scenarios that happen across your offices, where you guys could probably provide the most value.
Pete: So most of the work, there are so many things, but half of them are related to physical defects. So, there is something wrong with the structure, and as much as construction is not, you know, we’re not smashing atoms together. It’s not inherently difficult to understand. I say it all the time, our work is not that complicated. We are stacking sticks and stones and pieces of metal neatly around and tying them together.
But there are a million moving parts in even the simplest of buildings. There are a million moving parts. And so, slapping them together out in the sunshine, rain, and wind, things happen. Things get messy in construction, on construction sites, and a well-put-together building lasts a lot longer and costs a lot less to maintain over time than a building that's not put together well. So, whether something’s leaking, there are cracks, or whatever else could go wrong with it physically, that is probably half of our work.
Tim: So, obviously, it's great to be in on the front end of managing the construction, hopefully not to get to the defects, but when those defects do arise walk us through the process that you guys have. How engaged, how you would engage, actually get involved and get up to speed on what's going on because I think that's 50% of what you're doing. Obviously, that's a much more complicated operation and much riskier.
Pete: It is. Over time, you know, I am a very process-oriented person, so we have a proprietary information system, and every project has a project manager or coordinator and a technical expert assigned. So they get together and run through everything. Literally, in the office, we have posters that show the process flow for every project.
So, we gather a bunch of information, interview people, and organize the data in a way- frankly, the way we organize it, sometimes the cream just rises to the top and we can see, for the for the first time, what went wrong, when nobody else could because they hadn’t put all the information together. And then we do visual inspections, we might come back and analyze the data and decide we need to do some testing, we write reports, we do construction cost estimates, we make plans and write requests for proposals for making repairs.
We just figure out what the steps are from the messy situation that we're in to solving the problem. And we are construction cost estimators, so we monetize the entire circumstance, the entire journey from messed up to not messed up. And usually, people say, "Oh, that's wonderful, thanks." And the other side says, "Those guys are smart, alright, let's just settle." But sometimes they don’t, and then we have to go to trial and tell that story to a jury. That’s very rare for us. We do hundreds of projects a year, and we only go to two or three trials. It’s very expensive and silly to go to trial in most circumstances.
Tim: So, as you're working on these projects and seeing different things. maybe give us an example of a recent client project you worked on that was the most interesting or brought to light some interesting circumstances. I know we've had a lot of rain lately, so maybe it's a flood or something else, but I know you work in a lot of different states. Give us an example of a recent engagement.
Pete: So, we've got one going where we have these, I just gave a proposal to speak at a symposium on this subject, and the title is something like “I built myself a monument” or “I built a monument to myself and you ruined it.” [NOTE: The case study, You Ruined My Monument to Myself, can be found on our website.]
So, you know, we are forever working on homes that are 25,000 square feet and cost twenty five million dollars, and they litigate at a far disproportionate rate to, you know, if they have a tractor home. People argue about them less. I've got one that's coming up, and it's going to trial because the people just hate each other. We could have sorted out the physical issues long ago. Nope, they just hate each other, and it's sad. Thankfully, that doesn't happen a lot to us because it's just weird and sad to have those kind of arguments because most of the problems that we deal with they're really our problems and and as much as there's a bunch of you know anytime you get lawyers and you know and people grandstanding and things but but ultimately there's a problem it needs a solution and usually what happens is something pretty sensible but every once in a while there's you know there's a movie star or or someone you know with a giant you know an outsized ego or something.
Tim: When emotions get involved, everything goes out the window. This may be a silly question, but as you're working on these losses and getting involved in claims, proposing, and looking at fixes, how often will they say, “Okay, now that you've gone through this process, rather than litigating this, we'll engage with you to manage the project and actually fix what's broken and get it back to being operable, functioning, and in good repair?
Pete: Yeah, that happens at about the same rate we go to trial, but actually, it's more than that. And I like those a lot because I think, different from some of our competitors who haven’t done any real work in 25 years, we always have real construction work going on.
Tim: When you say they have done the real work, it’s because they're just really trial consultants and experts who actually don't do construction work?
Pete Fowler, Chief Quality Officer: Anymore. Okay, you know, everybody used to. It's sort of the key to the door; you used to be in construction, really.
Tim: That's probably where you would get the skills to be able to become an expert, right?
Pete: That's right. To be an expert, if you're talking about microbiology, there’s a certain bar. To be an expert in construction, really, the bar is low. We’re simple creatures, right? I got a degree in construction management for a reason. I didn't want to compete with people who have a degree in law, right?
But I love when the other side comes to me at the end of the litigation and they go, "You know, our expert solution seems not that sensible, but your solutions seem pretty sensible. Will you actually do what you said during the litigation?"
Yes, yes. So that’s our take when we're doing the analysis in our office. Sometimes I'll get a construction cost estimate to review from one of the estimators in the office, and I go, "This feels light," or "Could we really do this?"
If they said, "You know, Bob, we love your estimate. Go do it!" - would we lose money doing this work if we said yes? They’ll go, "Alright, let me go look at it again," scurry back to the office, and oftentimes they come back and say, "No, no, we can do it."
Tim: Right, but that's kind of the the principle you guys operate on. If you were actually going to do the work, it would not be just some fabricated number or what sounds good.
Pete: Right, going back to what I learned when I was seven, that I was a bad liar, so I don't want that.
Every Tuesday and Thursday, we have a technical huddle with all of our experts getting on the phone together. It's so gratifying to hear people say, "Hey, is Pete's office on this case? Did they do an estimate? Can I see their estimate? Because I know those guys are sensible. You know, you're not too high, you're not too low. You're sensible people. It's the right numbers."
One of the guys, at our last technical huddle, said, "I had a lawyer follow me around three times, saying to me, 'Oh, I'm so glad you guys are on this case. We trust your reports.'"
It wasn't even our client! He's following me around, and it wasn't even our client. That makes me feel great, right? I love that. I just always wanted to work with smart people who had integrity.
Tim: So, you say the you know constructions simple and easy but your operation is very complex. You have those processes in place. Before we go, maybe give us a sense of the scope of your operation- where your offices are located and where your clients are.
Pete: I grew up in North County, San Diego, and after I got out of college, I moved back as far as Orange County. So, I have an office in San Clemente.
We just recently opened our most recent office in Corona. I haven't even visited yet, it's only about six weeks old. I should go sometime. But we also have an office in Las Vegas and have had an office in Portland, Oregon, since 2005. Then, just earlier this year, we started operations in Orlando, Florida.
Tim: Wow, you are covering it.
Pete: Yes, I don't go there much. But my first boss- I bought his business because he wanted to move to Orlando. So, we run what was his operation here, and he's running our operation in Florida now.
Tim: Very cool.
Pete: Yeah, it’s fun.
Tim: That’s awesome. Well, Pete, before we let you go, maybe give us a sense of where you like to spend your free time when you're not consulting on construction projects and working with your team to optimize your results in litigation.
Pete: I used to bounce between Orange County, I raised my children in Portland, Oregon. I moved when they were little and raised them up there, so I got used to having two homes in two very different places.
I've since moved back to North County, San Diego, and I have a place in Las Vegas, so I go between those places. I spend my time working out, eating in nice restaurants, and reading books.
Yeah, it's not that exciting of a life, although, of course, I like it. I like Las Vegas because there are shows. I used to play music, so I go to shows all the time.
I'm a recent empty-nester; we were talking about your four children. I was a very, very involved father, so I thought I would be lonely. Nope, I'm having a great time with that.
Tim: Very cool. Well, we will link all of Pete's information and also the information for his company down in the description below. if you have any questions, leave them in the comments. We'll make sure one of us gets back to you. Thanks for joining the show man, I appreciate it.